Karen Lee: Welcome to Intellectual Property Matters. In this WIPO podcast, we explore the fascinating world of creativity, innovation and intellectual property. Let's listen, learn and get inspired.
Natalie Humsi: Thanks for tuning in to today's episode of Classroom Conversations, a WIPO Academy series, and I'm joined today by Pilar Montero. She's an intellectual property professor and the director of the International Master's Degree in Intellectual Property and Digital Innovation at the University of Alicante in Spain. Today, Pilar will explain the basics of geographical indications and how this form of intellectual property, or IP for short, is important for many industries like the food industry.
So to start off, let me ask a very basic question to help our listeners just better understand, what exactly is a geographical indication, or “GI” for short? What type of product or service is it relevant for? Can you let us know?
Pilar Montero: I think geographical indications surround us and we can see that the use of a geographical name to identify a product is a very old practice. We can see geographical indications even in the Bible, in Greece and in Rome, for instance, we can think about the Corinthian bronze, and the Carrara marble, which Cesar, the Emperor in Rome received with wine with an indication of the region of provenance.
So, we as consumers are very used to recognizing peculiar flavors or qualities or even certain products that come from different locations. And we are facing an intellectual property right, and sometimes it is a right that is more difficult for consumers and for producers to identify because of the different options that we have in practice and also because of the evolution that this right has suffered.
We can perhaps highlight that geographical indications are a result of the tradition and the culture of the countries. When we travel, we always like to buy typical products of the area.
If I go to Spain, I will buy Jamón Serrano. If I go to India, I will buy a sari. If I go to Colombia, I will take perhaps a Wayuu bag. Why? Because those products are special for us. They are the result of a know-how, a tradition, a culture, and we would like to have a piece of this culture or a piece of this know-how with us. In this sense, geographical indications highlight the specific qualities of products due to local tradition in the product’s place of origin. And this usually includes specific manufacturing skills and traditions.
Geographical indications are distinctive signs similar to trademarks but with many differences, with two main functions. First of all, geographical indications warranty to consumers the geographical origin of goods and also warranty the special qualities inherent to those products. In this regard, they can benefit consumers and producers, but they also have other functions.
Those signs are a way to increase the quality of the products. They can promote diversification of production. And in this regard, we can see that we are facing a mechanism for territorial integration and promote the cultural identity of a nation.
Natalie Humsi: Can we find GIs everywhere in every country, or is it limited to specific parameters let's say?
Pilar Montero: To identify certain products with their place of origin and tradition is a historical practice and it's a global phenomenon. But the legal protection depends on the history and the tradition of each country. This special sign is very close to different countries’ traditions, and we can see that in the Mediterranean culture GIs are a very common practice…in Spain, France, Greece.
But for the same reason we can find a very important tradition of GIs for craft products in other countries such as India, Mexico, Colombia, etc. The legal protection of those signs depends on the history and the tradition of each country. We can see geographical indications as an IP right, or those signs can also be protected by special product regulations. We can have other systems like trademark regulation, but this will be a different one. Or finally, to protect those named only by unfair competition.
But if we want to achieve the benefits I mentioned at the beginning: to protect traditions and the cultural heritage of the countries, the best approach is the system of geographical indications. And we can highlight that in the recent years we are observing an increase in the number of countries that are implementing this particular intellectual property right such as, for instance, the Philippines in October 2022.
Natalie Humsi: As a consumer, when I'm in the market the next time, how can I identify a product with a geographical indication type of protection? Are there any signs I should look for?
Pilar Montero: It’s true that consumers can sometimes get confused a little bit when identifying geographical indication products, particularly, I think due to the lower degree of uniformity across the countries. But this is changing, this improving over the time as more and more countries are incorporating this specific system.
Nevertheless, it’s true also that consumer can be confused because sometimes in the market it is common to find products using similar words such as “origin”, you know “Swiss origin”, or country flags with words referring to the region. And this could also be because in the different regulations, we can find sometimes two definitions, as is the case in several countries – differentiating designation of origin and geographical indication – and sometimes it is true that consumers may not know the difference. In this regard, it is very important to differentiate GIs from other quality schemes, and also differentiate GIs from trademarks.
If we are consumers, we need to know that we have different options to identify GIs in the market. Usually, national laws require designation of origin or geographical indications, so we need to see these names or those words on the product. We buy in Spain, Queso Manchego, and it will be with the protected designation of origin “Queso Manchego”.
It’s also common to have logos in order to help the consumers to identify the protected product. And this is the case also at the European Union, we have two logos for each one of the categories, but in many other countries we can see those logos for geographical indications, as is the case for Chile, Colombia, China, India, among many others. So we need to see if we have those logos in order to certify that we are buying a geographical indications protected product.
Natalie Humsi: But those logos, they are not the same as a trademark, for example, because that can be confusing...
Pilar Montero: Yes, again, it is true that we are facing different intellectual property rights, so we need to understand that a geographical indication is a different IP right. If we compare GIs with trademarks, they have different functions in this regard. It is true that we need to take into account that we have different kinds of trademarks. We have individual trademarks, collective trademarks, usually certification or warranty trademarks and geographical indications.
And in order to note the differences and understand very well the signs in the logos in our products, we need to take into account that, first of all, individual trademarks will be different. Their function is to inform consumers about the business origin of this product and it is true that sometimes they can have several functions. But the essential function, the first one is to inform us about the producers.
If we face a collective trademark, we have a trademark that will inform us as consumers about the business origin of our product, but when this product comes from a group of producers, let's say, an association. For instance, the association of sustainable farmers of a village may have a collective trademark that indicates that the products marked with that trademark will come from farmers who are members of this association.
And finally, we can also find warranty or certification trademarks in many countries. In this case, the use of the trademark indicates to consumers that the product has certified characteristics, or that this product is vegan or organic etc. Regarding GIs products, it's possible to have different signs. First of all, the sign: if we have a GI product, we will have the GI sign (the GI logos), informing consumers that the product is covered by a designation of origin. That could be the case in the same product we can have a collective trademark informing consumers that the producer is a member of the association of producers of that designation of origin. For example, consejos or consortiums in Italy - it depends on the countries.
It's also possible to include in the same product a certification mark indicating that the product fulfills different requirements. And finally, we will use always an individual trademark in order to inform consumers that the products come from a particular producer. So I think we can see the complementarity of the different signs in the market and the importance for us as a consumers to identify all of them.
We need to be more attentive I think when we buy products in the supermarket and I think as consumers, we are more and more concerned about the things and the qualities and the ingredients of the products we buy in the supermarket. So, I think those signs, all of them, I mean, trademarks and geographical indications can help us a lot in this choice.
Natalie Humsi: I've noticed this, again in the supermarket, that GI products usually tend to be more expensive than non-GI products, why are we paying more for that?
Pilar Montero: That’s so true. Those products are usually more expensive when we buy them in the supermarket. But this is because the producer will have higher requirements and has to be regularly controlled by official authorities. And that's also the value of geographical indications for producers.
If a producer of a cheese wants to benefit of a GI, imagine if they would like to use “Parmigiano-Reggiano” in order to put it on the cheese, they need to fulfill several obligations set out in their product specifications. And if the producer does not comply with those specifications, they may not use their name. And we will see that for GI products they set up many requirements regarding traditional production processes, raw materials, etc.
It’s also for that reason that these particular intellectual property rights guarantee to consumers, a higher quality of the products and also the confidence to support local production, usually sustainable products and also the preservation of traditions and local employment. So those producers will have more obligations than others, and it's for that reason that the products will be more expensive.
Natalie Humsi: If I am a cheese producer, a local producer, and I want to benefit from geographical indications, how would I go about that? What are the steps I should take?
Pilar Montero: One thing I would like to highlight regarding the geographical indications, and I think it is different in several countries if you compare it with trademarks, is that geographical indications usually need registration. So in order to benefit from those different legal regimes, we need to register the geographical indication. And it's true that the geographical indications have a registration procedure that is usually quite complex and usually also longer than a trademark.
This takes time for different reasons. Particularly, we need to know that we will need to have an agreement between producers because we are facing a collective right. So we need to have this agreement with the different producers. For instance, cheese producers, as you mentioned, because we need to also have an agreement regarding the product specifications, the different steps we need to respect in order to produce that cheese.
Regarding the duties, all the producers need to know that they will have to respect certain procedures and controls. And it's also for that reason that they need to agree on those controls and to have the different mechanisms in order to control the different steps of the production process. There are also many, many other steps, but we need to know that we need to respect and to fulfill different steps. We don't have the same structure in all countries, but usually it is longer than trademarks in order to respect and to warranty the different steps we need to fulfill if we are producers with a geographical indication.
Natalie Humsi: It's quite the process and maybe a producer is thinking, is this worth all the efforts? What do you think? What advice can you give?
Pilar Montero: Okay, I will definitely say yes for many reasons. First of all, it's true that you need an agreement with the other producers, but you will have big benefits. Why? Because you will have the protection of the name of this product and you will have usually national public support in order to help you regarding this process.
First of all, it depends on the different countries, but usually you have public support in order to do this registration and also in the market after when you are producing and you are selling your product by geographical indications, you will benefit from a collective reputation, you will benefit from a tradition, and usually a traditional knowledge.
So, you will have a know-how and a reputation, and in this regard I think it is good and very useful for the different producers to have this kind of value in order to offer the product to the consumers. I need to highlight also that you can sell your product with a higher price, which would really benefit you as a producer. So, I think from marketing point of view also it will be a big asset for you if you are a producer to have this geographical indication because this can help you and your region to improve the value of your products.
Natalie Humsi: I think it's quite convincing on the different types of benefits for producers. If a producer goes through the efforts and starts benefiting from GIs, how long do GI rights last for? Because different IP rights last for different amounts of time. Just so a producer who maybe doesn't know could have an idea about that.
Pilar Montero: It is true, that we need to see the different regulations in the different countries but also usually one of the benefits of the GIs, if we compare with trademarks, is that we can have this right forever. I mean, we don't need to renew it. And it's true that it depends.
Sometimes we need to renew because it is not the same in different countries. But it is very common to have this right forever. I mean, without any other obligation. Of course, it's true that we need to use the geographical indication, but in this case it's also a little bit different if we compare it with trademarks, because usually we will have more time in order to prove that we are using the geographical indication so we have less burdens if we compare it with the trademarks.
And also another benefit regarding the protection is that geographical indications will have a broader protection in the market if we compare them with trademarks. So I think we can see that they will have more benefits and those benefits are a consequence of the protection of the traditional knowledge of the cultural heritage of the countries.
Natalie Humsi: I wanted to ask if you have any final pieces of advice that you would give both producers and consumers on the market.
Pilar Montero: Of course, I think if you are producers you need to observe if you have a product that can benefit from this protection. And in this case, if you have it, it will be very useful for you to try to register this geographical indication, because in this case you need to know that you could benefit from a collective success and also a higher price.
But in order to do so, I advise you to consult an expert, to help you to know how to register and also how to do this process. Because as I mentioned, it's a complicated process and also it usually takes time and needs agreements with other producers and authorities, etc. You will need expert advice as a producer on the strategy to follow with regard to your trademark and GIs, because usually you will have both. You will have a trademark for your product and the GIs.
Otherwise, if you don't have an expert advice, you can have problems with your trademarks and perhaps also with the GIs. So it will be really very useful for you as a producer to have expert advice.
And for the consumers, I think it will be nice to highlight that it is very important to learn how to identify the different signs of the products in the market. It's also useful for us as consumers to know the benefits of the different GIs products, particularly nowadays, we have a lot of concern regarding the products we buy at the supermarkets. We need to understand that if we select GIs products, we are supporting quality production, we are supporting the preservation of culture and tradition, and also the local production. So I think we will have products with many benefits if we compare it with other kind of products.
Finally, I would like also to highlight that we are often making visible and valuable women's competences by buying those kind of products, so I think also it could be a good reason.
Natalie Humsi: Can you elaborate more on the gender elements of GIs?
Pilar Montero: Usually when we talk about the geographical indication products, they are made in very little regions and very little villages. And usually the people in charge of the production are women. And in this regard, sometimes they are not very visible.
I am thinking of the Wayuu bags in Colombia. They are made by a collectivity of women and in this case, making visible this know-how and this process of production, can make the work of those women visible. And we can also help them to improve their method of production and also improve the value of these products and also the value of the region in this regard.
So I think it's a very good example in order to see how those intellectual property rights can help the different regions or the different countries in order to improve their local employment and cultural heritage.
Natalie Humsi: I think it's very good to empower women in any way we can, especially through intellectual property. The example that you gave was pretty powerful. So I was wondering, is that your favorite example of a GI or do you have a favorite GI?
Pilar Montero: I have lots of favorite GIs because as GIs are so close to the countries, to the tradition and to the characteristics of the people of the different countries, it is really difficult to find only one. But it is true that I gave you this example, but I have many others.
And particularly perhaps in Europe, we have lots of examples regarding wine that I like very much because they are very important for our culture and we can have this traceability of the wines in the whole history, which I think is very interesting for us in order to know the importance of geographical indications and the relationship between countries.
In the golden age of the wine industry in our country, it started in the 19th century with an agreement between France and Spain in order to solve some problems caused by the Phylloxera insects at that time. So in this regard, we can see geographical indications as a tool to help countries to improve the wine industry. And it has been a very well-known case in order to understand the power and the importance of geographical indications in the world.
And I can also share another example regarding the importance of the public help to the different geographical indications and how this can help regions. I can refer to “green gold” variety of oregano in Chile, the oregano of the Putre foothills that was introduced in Chile by the first Spanish that arrived at the very beginning. And this “green gold” is a variety of oregano, widely used in gastronomy, as we know, and is distinguished from other oregano by this intense aroma and the powerful green color and the flavor.
The problem of this oregano, was that the product is dried outdoors and the production area of the oregano is at a very high altitude in the Chilean highlands with a large temperature variation between the day and the night. Therefore, the Chilean office prepared a report in order to help producers with new technologies on how to solve those problems. And this report was designed under the logic of appropriate technology, low cost technology for simpler problems. So, I think it's a very good example in order to see how public institutions and public offices can help producers in order to improve their products and benefit from geographical indications.
Natalie Humsi: One last question before we wrap up, just because I'm curious, what was the first GI that you had to deal with that introduced you to this field? Was there a first case that made you go like “Oh, this is what inspires me to work in this field”?
Pilar Montero: I don’t know because it's difficult to say because I have so many different cases. I have been involved with two important cases in Spain, and I think the first one I can mention could be the Jamon de Jabugo (Huelva).
I followed the case of this geographical indication with different problems in order to do the registration with the name. It's also very important to choose the name of the geographical indication, and also afterwards how to deal with protection in other fields, not only for the same product but also for others. That is a very big problem for the reputation of geographical indications. So perhaps that could be one of them.
But of course I have so many examples of geographical indications that it is a challenge for me to find only one.
Natalie Humsi: Of course. Well, thank you so much Pilar. This has been very insightful and this brings us to the end of our classroom conversation for today. I also want to thank our curious listeners for tuning in and will catch you all next time on Classroom Conversations.